Rainwear Central Rainwear Forum

Posted: **May 19th, 2020, 11:55 am**

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm I don't know the backstory to your beef so i have no knowledge of if he was the original poster of the images or just another person saving them.

You don’t know the background but are quite happy to wade in, sounds fair

If your intention was to “defuse the situation” it would have been quite easy to just say ‘knock it on the head guys’

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm I'm not sure why you didn't go directly to Pinterest to have them taken down.

A Copyright infringement notification requires the complainant to identify each of the offending images

As this person had almost 8,000 images to wade through it would have been a quite a time-consuming task and I didn’t have the time available

You talk about community spirit maybe when I contacted this person last year they could have taken a minute to make their account private then rather than wait until a couple of days ago

I dont want to sound rude but I’m not really interested if or why you choose to hide your faces, that's non of my business, I was trying to give an example of a situation where a third party might use your images in circumstances you weren’t happy with but as someone who is, “not going to accidently do anything” obviously this doesn’t apply

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm Instead of attacking you could have enlightened us on the realistic costs of model hire, hosting and associated costs. How much traffic you get vs subcriptions/purchases and the realities of making content.

Why? When I buy a sausage roll I have no interest in the cost of the ingredients or the running costs of the bakery

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm Give some actual figures, you know it might even make one of those find and pay for the stuff they like instead of alienating them.

Good luck to them with their searching as I haven’t had any paid for content available for years, far too many people just willing just steal it

In your ‘normal’ job you’re an accountant, aren’t you? you must be if you believe people seek out and buy photographic content based on facts and figures

I’ll do a pie chart to go with my sausage roll, do you think a spreadsheet would help?

Most people wont even bother to search for original material let alone pay for it when its so easy to steal it

You do seem to talk about money quite a lot and ask about costs is that the route you’re intending to take?

Posted: **May 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm**

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 11:55 am If your intention was to “defuse the situation” it would have been quite easy to just say ‘knock it on the head guys’

I essentially did by saying stop getting personal.

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 11:55 amI dont want to sound rude

Yet you go on to do basically nothing but be rude. And you've made multiple wierd digs that essentially call people looking at/saving at pics on Pinterest wankers.
Maybe you want to put that sausage roll in you gob a minute, cool down, stop being cynical and actually discuss something like an adult.

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 11:55 am
reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm Instead of attacking you could have enlightened us on the realistic costs of model hire, hosting and associated costs. How much traffic you get vs subcriptions/purchases and the realities of making content.
Why? When I buy a sausage roll I have no interest in the cost of the ingredients or the running costs of the bakery

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm Give some actual figures, you know it might even make one of those find and pay for the stuff they like instead of alienating them.
Good luck to them with their searching as I haven’t had any paid for content available for years, far too many people just willing just steal it

Because it's pertinent to the conversation in multiples ways.
1. It enlightens everybody to actual costs
2. We had discussed costs
3. People might want to actually make their own content for either them selves or to share.
4. Yes some people are more likely to pay when they are aware of cost (happens in many other art/hobby/creative fields)
5. Because you actually have experience as per your name and could be helpful to the discussion.

Is any of it going to stop content theft? No.
might it make a handful of the lurkers pay to a content creator? Absolutely.
Times are changing. We are in an age of crowd sourcing material. Or patreon supported content creators.
Fansonly is reporting having massive profits from people directly paying for content from their favourite models.

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 11:55 amYou do seem to talk about money quite a lot and ask about costs is that the route you’re intending to take?

I think I've been quite clear and open.
I'll quite happily say I'm ignorant of the costs and find it interesting. I'd like to understand it further and would benefit the discussion to actually talk about it rather then go in to a diatribe of partially obscured insults.

Yes I'd like to know more. I outright asked about sites and hosting. I have no idea where we will go with our content, at the moment it's too low quality to ask for money and we are happy just to share for now, I have absolutely no interest in making money. It would only ever go back in to funding new outfits, I'm sure you are well aware of the cost of this fetish and if we decide to go further with it , it may be an option we would to consider to keep content fresh.
it's nice to know options or hear the experience of those who've done it already. I'm just openly musing through the idea. There is an equal chance we delete everything and go back to normal life.

So please just chill, your diatribe is really unnecessary and unhelpful.

Posted: **May 20th, 2020, 7:22 pm**

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm I essentially did by saying stop getting personal.

And that would have been the best place to stop but for some reason you felt the need to carry on

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm Yet you go on to do basically nothing but be rude. And you've made multiple wierd digs that essentially call people looking at/saving at pics on Pinterest wankers.

Really? Maybe you’d like to give some examples

I’ve never hidden my dislike of people who steal images and repost them, whether my images or other peoples

I have no problem with people who stay within the law and post items that belong to them or they have permission to post

I enjoy looking at new, original material but have very little interest in looking through thousands of images that have already been available in probably hundreds of other ‘collections’

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm Maybe you want to put that sausage roll in you gob a minute, cool down, stop being cynical and actually discuss something like an adult.

I’m not sure the first part of your sentence reflects the end

It might be worth checking with your charm school and see if they offer refunds

Maybe my cynicism comes from experience

reversiblepete wrote: ↑May 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm Is any of it going to stop content theft? No.
might it make a handful of the lurkers pay to a content creator? Absolutely.

Of course it won’t stop content theft, when people shoplift they don’t care how much its going to add to everyone else’s bills

If you were 15, I’d think you were naïve to believe telling people how much it costs to run a site would encourage them to pay, as you are quite a bit older I consider you to be deluded

Most people couldn’t care less what it costs to create and host content, why should they, that’s down to the content creator

All a subscriber should worry about is can they afford the subscription and is the content value for money

Posted: **May 20th, 2020, 8:45 pm**

You nailed it...

Maybe my cynicism comes from experience

Definitely.

I like the sausage roll example by the way...

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 4:28 am**

Just to clear up some assumptions here:
Pretty and skinny do not mean the same thing to me.
I am happy to support content creators. I bought a scene yesterday at Clips4Sale from one of my favorites because I want her to keep producing. But in the case of XXX rainwear scenes, there is simply nothing out there. At least nothing that I am aware of but thanks to this thread there are some new sites for me to look into so thank you to all who have offered suggestions.
I would love to be producing content on my own but I'm not able to do so at this time for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't be raincoat-focused but you'd definitely see some gals in Stutterheims and PVC trenches testing their durability from time to time. If that ever happens, I'll happily let this community know (but don't hold your breath because life circumstances and logistics prevail).
If I were to produce content I would do so with the full understanding that it will be stolen and spread across the internet perhaps as soon as the moment it is released. I have seen some wonderful amateur models pull all of their material offline because people were spreading it around or claiming it as their own. I know how frustrating that must be for content creators after they put in time and energy and money. All I could try to do is accept it and make the best of it rather than be mad about it. If I created a scene and found it on one of the Tube sites or wherever I'm sure my nose would be a little out of joint but after that initial moment I'd look at it as a badge of honor that someone thought my content was worth sharing.

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am**

CatoDogwood wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 4:28 am If I were to produce content I would do so with the full understanding that it will be stolen and spread across the internet perhaps as soon as the moment it is released. [...] All I could try to do is accept it and make the best of it rather than be mad about it. If I created a scene and found it on one of the Tube sites or wherever I'm sure my nose would be a little out of joint but after that initial moment I'd look at it as a badge of honor that someone thought my content was worth sharing.

Agree with you there buddy... as soon as you post something you should be aware it gets stolen at some point (if the quality makes stealing worth it). Nothing you can do about that, even billion dollar companies cannot stop that from happening (see any blockbuster movie that you can watch online for free).

In my opinion these are the best things you can do:

- post your own material all over the place yourself so you have some control about it and use it for promoting your service/yourself/ your company / your website / your profile. If its easily available there is less payoff to stealing it. And when people do steal it, it will just sit on their HD, or when they post it, people might look for more pictures of the same quality/style and end up at your profile/site anyways.

- if you want to make money from your pictures/videos you should look closely at your business model: either make commissioned material (where the requestor almost pays for the total costs already) or keep access very limited to only a few users to avoid it spreading on the internet (but again, this will only delay it spreading and not avoid it). Or, and this is what most people start doing, go for a subscription model where you not so much sell the content, but more sell access to your complete library plus all newest updates. Compare this to netflix: you can watch all those movies and series somewhere for free online, but for a few bucks a month you have access to all of the content in high and consistent quality. I happily pay $5 a month to not have to go to hundreds of websites to see an episode of a series here and there.

And i also have made some content in the past that got "stolen" (shared without credentials). Luckily i am proud of those pictures and when i lost the original (high-quality) files I was happy i came across them on some tumblr site and took have them myself also again.

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 11:06 am**

CatoDogwood wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 4:28 am Just to clear up some assumptions here:
Pretty and skinny do not mean the same thing to me.
I am happy to support content creators. I bought a scene yesterday at Clips4Sale from one of my favorites because I want her to keep producing. But in the case of XXX rainwear scenes, there is simply nothing out there. At least nothing that I am aware of but thanks to this thread there are some new sites for me to look into so thank you to all who have offered suggestions.
I would love to be producing content on my own but I'm not able to do so at this time for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't be raincoat-focused but you'd definitely see some gals in Stutterheims and PVC trenches testing their durability from time to time. If that ever happens, I'll happily let this community know (but don't hold your breath because life circumstances and logistics prevail).
If I were to produce content I would do so with the full understanding that it will be stolen and spread across the internet perhaps as soon as the moment it is released. I have seen some wonderful amateur models pull all of their material offline because people were spreading it around or claiming it as their own. I know how frustrating that must be for content creators after they put in time and energy and money. All I could try to do is accept it and make the best of it rather than be mad about it. If I created a scene and found it on one of the Tube sites or wherever I'm sure my nose would be a little out of joint but after that initial moment I'd look at it as a badge of honor that someone thought my content was worth sharing.

Thanks for an interesting post
It’s good to know you support content creators and understand some of the frustrations of content theft

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 11:28 am**

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 11:06 am
CatoDogwood wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 4:28 am Just to clear up some assumptions here:
Pretty and skinny do not mean the same thing to me.
I am happy to support content creators. I bought a scene yesterday at Clips4Sale from one of my favorites because I want her to keep producing. But in the case of XXX rainwear scenes, there is simply nothing out there. At least nothing that I am aware of but thanks to this thread there are some new sites for me to look into so thank you to all who have offered suggestions.
I would love to be producing content on my own but I'm not able to do so at this time for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't be raincoat-focused but you'd definitely see some gals in Stutterheims and PVC trenches testing their durability from time to time. If that ever happens, I'll happily let this community know (but don't hold your breath because life circumstances and logistics prevail).
If I were to produce content I would do so with the full understanding that it will be stolen and spread across the internet perhaps as soon as the moment it is released. I have seen some wonderful amateur models pull all of their material offline because people were spreading it around or claiming it as their own. I know how frustrating that must be for content creators after they put in time and energy and money. All I could try to do is accept it and make the best of it rather than be mad about it. If I created a scene and found it on one of the Tube sites or wherever I'm sure my nose would be a little out of joint but after that initial moment I'd look at it as a badge of honor that someone thought my content was worth sharing.
Thanks for an interesting post
It’s good to know you support content creators and understand some of the frustrations of content theft

We have been there to!

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 3:01 pm**

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am Agree with you there buddy... as soon as you post something you should be aware it gets stolen at some point (if the quality makes stealing worth it). Nothing you can do about that, even billion dollar companies cannot stop that from happening (see any blockbuster movie that you can watch online for free).

While I might not like it I accept this is a fact of life

“if the quality makes stealing worth it”

From what I’ve seen on Pinterest and other such platforms there is very little quality control exercised by the ‘collectors’

The need seems to be to strip every image available and post it on their own account

One collector has posted the exact same image taken from 5 other accounts

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am In my opinion these are the best things you can do:

- post your own material all over the place yourself so you have some control about it and use it for promoting your service/yourself/ your company / your website / your profile. If its easily available there is less payoff to stealing it. And when people do steal it, it will just sit on their HD, or when they post it, people might look for more pictures of the same quality/style and end up at your profile/site anyways.

Promotional images / samples / teasers whatever you want to call them are fair game but there are already examples where watermarks are being removed proving it difficult to find the creator’s site

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am - if you want to make money from your pictures/videos you should look closely at your business model: either make commissioned material (where the requestor almost pays for the total costs already)

Custom shoots do make money but not many people are willing to take on the cost
Obviously, there’s no problem with stolen images as there can be only two sources, the client or the photographer

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am
Or, and this is what most people start doing, go for a subscription model where you not so much sell the content, but more sell access to your complete library plus all newest updates.

Things might be easier now with the likes of Patreon on the scene but it will be always be difficult to run a subscription site while people are willing to steal and share images

I’ve already seen images used on this forum as tasters / teasers for a subscription site reposted on Pinterest with the watermarks removed

I admire the content creator for trying to provide new original material but how long will it be before their complete sets of images are available for everyone and the creator stops

I set up my subscription-based website to provide new original images, I knew it wouldn’t make money but I hoped to cover the costs

It went well for a while and although it wasn’t possible to completely cover the cost, I was willing to subsidise it as a hobby

As the image sharing sites developed the more of the site’s images appeared on them, not just the teaser images (which I expected) but images from the subscription area

More and more images from the subscription area where being uploaded so the number of paying members dropped, why pay for something you can get for free?

One week someone posted around fifty images on their Pinterest account the day after they’d been posted in the subscription area

Not enough money coming in to cover even the basic costs and not enough fun to make me want to subsidise it any longer

I still shoot, I just don’t post the images it makes life much simpler

Posted: **May 26th, 2020, 3:07 pm**

rainwear-experience wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 3:01 pm
BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am Agree with you there buddy... as soon as you post something you should be aware it gets stolen at some point (if the quality makes stealing worth it). Nothing you can do about that, even billion dollar companies cannot stop that from happening (see any blockbuster movie that you can watch online for free).
While I might not like it I accept this is a fact of life

“if the quality makes stealing worth it”

From what I’ve seen on Pinterest and other such platforms there is very little quality control exercised by the ‘collectors’

The need seems to be to strip every image available and post it on their own account

One collector has posted the exact same image taken from 5 other accounts

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am In my opinion these are the best things you can do:
Gary from PVCDREAMS has been ripped off two as his videos are posted else where!
- post your own material all over the place yourself so you have some control about it and use it for promoting your service/yourself/ your company / your website / your profile. If its easily available there is less payoff to stealing it. And when people do steal it, it will just sit on their HD, or when they post it, people might look for more pictures of the same quality/style and end up at your profile/site anyways.
Promotional images / samples / teasers whatever you want to call them are fair game but there are already examples where watermarks are being removed proving it difficult to find the creator’s site

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am - if you want to make money from your pictures/videos you should look closely at your business model: either make commissioned material (where the requestor almost pays for the total costs already)
Custom shoots do make money but not many people are willing to take on the cost
Obviously, there’s no problem with stolen images as there can be only two sources, the client or the photographer

BobbyValore wrote: ↑May 26th, 2020, 10:14 am
Or, and this is what most people start doing, go for a subscription model where you not so much sell the content, but more sell access to your complete library plus all newest updates.
Things might be easier now with the likes of Patreon on the scene but it will be always be difficult to run a subscription site while people are willing to steal and share images

I’ve already seen images used on this forum as tasters / teasers for a subscription site reposted on Pinterest with the watermarks removed

I admire the content creator for trying to provide new original material but how long will it be before their complete sets of images are available for everyone and the creator stops

I set up my subscription-based website to provide new original images, I knew it wouldn’t make money but I hoped to cover the costs

It went well for a while and although it wasn’t possible to completely cover the cost, I was willing to subsidise it as a hobby

As the image sharing sites developed the more of the site’s images appeared on them, not just the teaser images (which I expected) but images from the subscription area

More and more images from the subscription area where being uploaded so the number of paying members dropped, why pay for something you can get for free?

One week someone posted around fifty images on their Pinterest account the day after they’d been posted in the subscription area

Not enough money coming in to cover even the basic costs and not enough fun to make me want to subsidise it any longer

I still shoot, I just don’t post the images it makes life much simpler

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